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God and the Gay Christian: The Biblical Case in Support of Same-Sex Relationships by Matthew Vines
karlireadsromance's review against another edition
3.0
3.5*
I'm conflicted. I really appreciated the approach Matthew Vines took to this, but I think this is far more suited for more conservative Christian (who are willing to open their minds) as a starting point. As not only a gay Christian myself but a sex-positive one, this didn't quite hit for me. I agreed with a lot of things Vines said, but some of his arguments didn't quite sit right with me. Overall I did really enjoy this and I think it's great for people in the church who are questioning what they've been taught, or for LGBT Christians/allies who want to be prepared when having these conversations!
I'm conflicted. I really appreciated the approach Matthew Vines took to this, but I think this is far more suited for more conservative Christian (who are willing to open their minds) as a starting point. As not only a gay Christian myself but a sex-positive one, this didn't quite hit for me. I agreed with a lot of things Vines said, but some of his arguments didn't quite sit right with me. Overall I did really enjoy this and I think it's great for people in the church who are questioning what they've been taught, or for LGBT Christians/allies who want to be prepared when having these conversations!
starklinqs's review against another edition
3.75
I think this is a great starter book, but I wish this really went in more on the scripture and analyzing it. It’s not like the book was devoid of it, of course, but this book felt mostly like a memoir with some biblical analysis added in, and I wish it went more in depth. I was expecting entire chapters solely dedicated to each portion and what each meant. It was great getting some history on how the scripture was analyzed and interpreted though.
violinknitter's review against another edition
4.0
So many times in the past five years have I been reminded of Proverbs 18:17: "The one who first states a case seems right,
until the other comes and cross-examines." I was told SO MANY TIMES growing up that "people who believe X don't take the Bible seriously." And it simply is ROYALLY untrue, on a multitude of fronts! If you want to disagree with other believers, disagree! But stop Bible-shaming already.
Sorry. Rant over. Anyway, in this book Matthew Vines presents carefully researched, thoughtful Biblical arguments for affirmation of faithful gay Christian life & marriage. I was familiar with many of these arguments already from other sources, but this book is a great concise & thoroughly footnoted presentation. Also compassionate, both towards gay believers and non-LGBTQ+ affirming believers.
until the other comes and cross-examines." I was told SO MANY TIMES growing up that "people who believe X don't take the Bible seriously." And it simply is ROYALLY untrue, on a multitude of fronts! If you want to disagree with other believers, disagree! But stop Bible-shaming already.
Sorry. Rant over. Anyway, in this book Matthew Vines presents carefully researched, thoughtful Biblical arguments for affirmation of faithful gay Christian life & marriage. I was familiar with many of these arguments already from other sources, but this book is a great concise & thoroughly footnoted presentation. Also compassionate, both towards gay believers and non-LGBTQ+ affirming believers.
adamrshields's review against another edition
4.0
Short Review: The biggest surprise I had about the book was that it was not horrible. I had an impression that it would be pretty bad and so maybe it is the case of low expectations. But it isn't horrible. I do think Vines is a bit out of his depth. But he is telling his own story, and attempting to be honest with scripture and there is room for that.
What I think he succeeds in best, is demonstrating that the modern conception of sexual orientation, where there are only a few that are solely same sex attracted while the majority are opposite sex attracted is not what the biblical writers were writing about. Vines illustrates well that ancient writers as well as biblical writers were operating under the idea that same sex activity was the result of having too much passion or undisciplined passion. Same sex activity wasn't about orientation because everyone could have same sex activity. Same sex activity is primarily about dominance. There was sexual gratification as well, but only the dominant partner was could participate without shame.
I think that is just one of the cultural conceptions that is speaking into the original culture of the text. But it is present. And the modern conception is absent. There is no evidence of a wide spread understanding of an equitable, monogamous, long term same sex relationship that was based on convenient like marriage.
This method then relies on an argument from silence. And I think that is where the book's weakness comes in.
I also think the end of the book, where Vines is primarily speaking to same sex Christians that are not supported is the type of rhetoric that many christians that are not supportive of gay marriage are concerned about. Vines talks about a third way. But his conception of a third way is between two options that I don't see a lot of people holding. Vine's two primary ways are complete rejection of the bible (and probably christianity) so that you can accept gay marriage. (Which does exist, but isn't what most Christians that I know that are accepting gay marriage are doing.)
His alternative is a complete rejection of not only gay marriage but all gay people in order to uphold scripture. That position exists, but it is not the best expression of those that are against gay marriage in the church. There are many Christians that say that scripture rejects gay marriage as an option, but up hold the full dignity and imageo dei people that are gay.
So I think both of the points that Vines is pushing off from, while they exist, are not the best examples of places where people are coming from. At the same time, Vines is asking for all churches to accept the full inclusion of not only gay people as people, but gay marriage as blessed by the church. A bit more openness to disagreement, asking gay Christians to seek out supportive congregations, not just try to change all congregations I think would tone down the rhetorical problems of the book.
I think this is worth reading. But it isn't a book that I can really say I highly recommend as a good example of making a case for gay marriage in the church.
My full review is on my blog at http://bookwi.se/god-and-the-gay-christian/
What I think he succeeds in best, is demonstrating that the modern conception of sexual orientation, where there are only a few that are solely same sex attracted while the majority are opposite sex attracted is not what the biblical writers were writing about. Vines illustrates well that ancient writers as well as biblical writers were operating under the idea that same sex activity was the result of having too much passion or undisciplined passion. Same sex activity wasn't about orientation because everyone could have same sex activity. Same sex activity is primarily about dominance. There was sexual gratification as well, but only the dominant partner was could participate without shame.
I think that is just one of the cultural conceptions that is speaking into the original culture of the text. But it is present. And the modern conception is absent. There is no evidence of a wide spread understanding of an equitable, monogamous, long term same sex relationship that was based on convenient like marriage.
This method then relies on an argument from silence. And I think that is where the book's weakness comes in.
I also think the end of the book, where Vines is primarily speaking to same sex Christians that are not supported is the type of rhetoric that many christians that are not supportive of gay marriage are concerned about. Vines talks about a third way. But his conception of a third way is between two options that I don't see a lot of people holding. Vine's two primary ways are complete rejection of the bible (and probably christianity) so that you can accept gay marriage. (Which does exist, but isn't what most Christians that I know that are accepting gay marriage are doing.)
His alternative is a complete rejection of not only gay marriage but all gay people in order to uphold scripture. That position exists, but it is not the best expression of those that are against gay marriage in the church. There are many Christians that say that scripture rejects gay marriage as an option, but up hold the full dignity and imageo dei people that are gay.
So I think both of the points that Vines is pushing off from, while they exist, are not the best examples of places where people are coming from. At the same time, Vines is asking for all churches to accept the full inclusion of not only gay people as people, but gay marriage as blessed by the church. A bit more openness to disagreement, asking gay Christians to seek out supportive congregations, not just try to change all congregations I think would tone down the rhetorical problems of the book.
I think this is worth reading. But it isn't a book that I can really say I highly recommend as a good example of making a case for gay marriage in the church.
My full review is on my blog at http://bookwi.se/god-and-the-gay-christian/
elletrixie's review against another edition
5.0
I highly recommend that everyone, no matter sexual orientation or opinion on the subject, read this book. It's thought provoking, honest and beautiful.
jwiser711's review against another edition
5.0
This books is an in depth view of how scripture supports, rather than forbids, committed same-sex relationships. For someone who has been a Christian and an ally for so long, I appreciate having a way to discuss my views more intelligently with people who feel that anything but heterosexuality is a sin in God's eyes. This books lays out how one can believe in the authority of of the scripture and fully support committed same-sex relationships. This book is something that I'm certain I will remember and refer back to frequently.
This book is a must read for anyone who falls into one of these categories:
1. Supports the LGBT community and wants fuel for their argument against Christians that do not.
2. Generally supportive people who feel that homosexuality is okay for "other people".
3. Open-minded individuals who want to know how someone can be Christian and LGBTQA.
This book is a must read for anyone who falls into one of these categories:
1. Supports the LGBT community and wants fuel for their argument against Christians that do not.
2. Generally supportive people who feel that homosexuality is okay for "other people".
3. Open-minded individuals who want to know how someone can be Christian and LGBTQA.
givemeallthememoirs's review against another edition
5.0
A must read for any Christian who was taught that "the Bible is very clear on this issue." I was impressed with how thoroughly this book is researched and the extensive citations dating back to the earliest Christian writings. Vines approaches the topic graciously and with an extremely high regard for Scripture and the Christian tradition- ultimately concluding (spoiler) that being an affirming Christian is "a requirement of Christian faithfulness."
fisk42's review against another edition
5.0
This was really a pretty fantastic book. It takes a hot topic and addresses it with great breadth and yet also great depth. Vines takes on each bible verse that is touted as reasoning for why homosexuality is allegedly a sin. For each verse he addresses not only the original language, but also the biblical context and historical context. These discussions are solid exegesis.
I am only slightly biased and tried to read these arguments as objectively as possible. Even still, I think for anyone who is non-affirming it is impossible to read this book with an open heart and mind and not come away with challenged or entirely changed notions. If you can read this book at not come away with reasonable doubt, at a minimum, about the claim that homosexuality is a sin, then you need to do some checking of your faith.
I am only slightly biased and tried to read these arguments as objectively as possible. Even still, I think for anyone who is non-affirming it is impossible to read this book with an open heart and mind and not come away with challenged or entirely changed notions. If you can read this book at not come away with reasonable doubt, at a minimum, about the claim that homosexuality is a sin, then you need to do some checking of your faith.