listening to a podcast to help comprehend most of this

The obvious critique of this book is the over-reliance on Morgan’s investigations into the Iroquois and subsequent universalization of certain practices and history to all peoples of the Americas. I both find that completely valid and not my primary frustration with the text.

Reading a predominantly Engels-led work is always fascinating because of his somewhat innate desire to create black and white “stages.” His constant, near unconscious, movement to describe different familial, kinship, and societal structures as building blocks all leading to the same place is the genesis for what would become the hyper-deterministic Marxism critiqued by almost all of academia.

However within this work, if one does some digging, there are some fascinating patterns of development that seem to appear and reappear across the world. While in one sentence he may use the antiquated terms of Savagery or Barbarism (although in his defense the moral baggage of those terms often aren’t present in his descriptions, with him more-so critiquing “Civilization” as the most immoral, violent, etc) only a few sentences later he will elaborate on the characteristics of class struggle that begin formally with the separation and enforcement of the gender binary and the subsequent separation of labor.

This isn’t a text I would tell a young leftist to read, but it is one that helps to flesh out the inner-method of historical materialism and how the logic of history can be used to draw connections between patterns of history and the development of capitalism. That is the primary use-value of reading a text like this today.

so basically the nuclear family is the biggest scam ever

My Adhd really struggled with this one, however it is a great analysis. The last chunk of this book is absolutely worth the in depth approach Engels takes, and echoes throughout history as a refutation of the inevitability of the development of the titular subjects.

i think engels' general thesis is cool in studying the formation of the state and family as we know it... hes just looking for answers in all the worst possible places. there are some pretty incredible applications of historical materialism here; specifically the last section dealing with the nature of the state that ended up contributing tons to lenins theory of the state in the state and revolution, its just that youre better off reading that one instead of this that STINKS of colonial anthropology and orientalism. engels cites morgan a lot who set up societies imitating native american life that they so graciously slaughtered and now revered. i think the portrayal of native american life here is flawed because neither morgan or engels are willing to confront the fact that the encountered "backwardness" of native life was a result of colonial disruption in their lives and economy especially as this book was written around the 1880s (i think could be later). i think the better material analyses on the state and family as an economic unit could be found in observing the more immediate history+theory of each idea (as angela davis does in the incredible last chapter of women race and class) and lenin does in s&r. both texts use this one as a starting point but they look for answers not in shaky colonial pseudocience but the stuff that actually affects peoples lives. either way kinda sorta recommended if you reallyyy feel the need to but you can get the best bits out of it from the texts that cite it more selectively

the verso intro content was incredible at least

i’m not very well read on broad strokes anthropological history, so i’m not sure what kinds of scientific and archaeological evidence has come out since this book (i’m sure it’s a lot), but there is still so much great analysis in this book. a long history of how human evolution has produced particular forms of the family and the state, this book shows how monogamous patriarchy is not innate to humanity and insists that history is not something that keeps getting better for all humans. rather, the progression of society has led to more oppression for some in order to produce the success of others.